#107437 - 06-03-03 09:01 AM
Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
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Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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A Country That Works
Smart policies and soft dictatorship make Tunisia something unique: a successful Arab economy
By Rana Foroohar
NEWSWEEK INTERNATIONAL
May 26/June 2 issue — The computer programmers drink mint tea with pine nuts. The offices are decorated with delicate tiles of azure blue and canary yellow. But aside from the Arabic details, you might mistake the Tunis Technology Park for any high-tech enclave in Silicon Valley.
WALLS ARE PLASTERED with posters advertising multimedia fairs and Linux training sessions. Firms like Alcatel and Ericsson are here, as is one of the country’s top technical colleges, where twentysomethings in T shirts hover over laptops, talking code. Two of them, Mohamed Sadok Mouha and Mohamed Ramzi Abdelhak, recently launched a software firm, Progress Engineering. “We want to be as big as Microsoft,” says Mouha.
That may take a while, since Tunisia’s GDP is a fraction of Microsoft’s market cap. Yet lofty ambition doesn’t seem totally out of place in a country of 10 million people that is defying the tragic decline of the Arab world, where vast oil wealth and billions in foreign aid have been squandered by corrupt and incompetent regimes. Alone among Arab states, Tunisia has made real progress building an economy based on resources other than oil. It’s also the only Arab economy to create a strong non-oil export sector, and a record of at least moderate economic growth (about 5.2 percent) in the last decade, according to a recent report from the World Economic Forum, which holds a Middle East summit in Jordan next month. Even more striking, Tunisia has achieved all this with neither great oil wealth (it’s a net importer) nor huge foreign aid (like the billions that keep Jordan afloat). In contrast to the decay of its neighbors, Tunisia bills itself with some justification as “a country that works.”
What makes Tunisia different? Tunis, the capital, feels like a European city, at least on the surface. Stylishly dressed men and women sip Turkish coffee in outdoor cafes, conversing fluently in both French and Arabic. Poverty is low; women fill 25 percent of the jobs, far more than in most Arab states. Literacy is high, but look closer: the media and Internet are censored. Portraits of President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali are everywhere. Speaking out against Ben Ali is a quick ticket to jail, even torture—but not to a grave. This is an important distinction. Diplomats in Tunis say Ben Ali runs a soft dictatorship, more like Singapore or South Korea in the 1980s than like some other Arab countries today.
Only 80 miles from Europe, Tunisia, like its Arab neighbors, has long been a crossroads for traders and emperors. The crucial difference: Tunisia had a relatively benign experience under French colonial rule, and emerged noticeably less bitter at the West. The postcolonial boundaries created a 98 percent Arab and Sunni Muslim population, so there was little of the ethnic and religious conflict that radicalized other new Arab nations. The first president after independence, a French-educated lawyer named Habib Bourguiba, was a common-sense reformer, not a strict follower of the Nasserite socialism that came to dominate the Middle East. Bourguiba was the first Arab ruler to outlaw polygamy, and he forced parents to send girls as well as boys to school. He was an Arab nationalist, but one who invested in health and education rather than an army, and left the capitalist class largely intact, allowing traditional industries like textiles to flourish. “Tunisia has by and large managed its wealth for the benefit of the population,” says Theodore Ahlers, director of the Maghreb region (which includes Tunisia) for the World Bank.
By 1987 Bourguiba was losing power to a rising fundamentalist movement, and the then-Prime Minister Ben Ali took his place in the presidential palace. In a bloodless coup that became known as The Change, Ben Ali squashed the fundamentalists and launched market reforms that made Tunisia a model for the International Monetary Fund. In 1995 he became the first Arab leader to sign a free-trade agreement with the European Union, capping Tunisia’s unique export boom, which rests largely on sales of textiles and light-manufacturing goods like car parts and insulated cable to Europe. While Tunisians identify themselves as Arabs, they measure themselves against Western standards of health, education and welfare. The U.S. ambassador to Tunisia, Rust Deming, says, “I believe Tunisia is well placed to be the first truly modern Arab republic.”
While trade in the Middle East continues to stagnate, Tunisia is heading in the opposite direction. It embraces globalization, offering a one-stop shop for foreign investors, with courts, customs and all other services in one building. As of the year 2000, Tunisia had the third largest foreign direct investment stock in the Middle East, which is stunning, given its small size and lack of oil. Tunis is home to offices of major international firms like Benetton, Danone, Nestle, Peugeot and Citibank. “Tunisia’s modern business climate is something that you just don’t see elsewhere in the region,” says Holger Standertskold, head of the trade-commission unit at the EU. “When a boat comes into port in Tunisia, it can be in and out in a matter of days. In Egypt, it might get held up for weeks.” American businessman Tom Wendt recently set up P&K Tunisie to make jet-engine parts for General Electric, citing a skilled, low-cost labor force and the fact that “I didn’t have to pay anybody to do business here.”
Now success is bringing new challenges. Tunisia is threatened by the rising manufacturing prowess of China. The Filtiss company has been around since 1943, making clothes and later linens. It saw exports to France and Italy boom in recent years, but now is overwhelmed by a flood of Chinese competitors, says marketing manager Ghazi Darghouth. To respond, Filtiss and other Tunisian companies are trying to capitalize on their geographic advantage over China by making items for European retailers who want to get new designs on the shelves in days, not weeks.
The move into “agile manufacturing” is strongly supported by the government, perhaps too strongly, according to critics. In 1996 Tunisia created the mise a niveau enterprise-upgrading program to help companies prepare for increasingly free markets by upgrading equipment, retraining staff, and so on. So far, 2,563 Tunisian companies have joined the program, which has helped firms increase exports by as much as 18 percent. In the face of a global downturn that slowed Tunisian GDP growth to 1.9 percent last year, the government is working hard to create new export industries, like electronic components and call centers catering to French companies. It’s even providing medical services to countries with backlogged national health systems, like Britain, which is starting a trial to send patients to Tunisian hospitals. “We know we can’t rest on our current activities,” says Finance Minister Taoufik Baccar. “We have to diversify further.”
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#107438 - 06-03-03 10:16 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Slippy
Member
Registered: 01-23-03
Posts: 347
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Tunisia, erstwhile sanctuary of Barbary pirates that bedeviled the U.S. in its infancy, is, after all, much closer to Europe than the Middle East.
Author Rana Foroohar paints a fairly nice picture, but censored Internet and media cast a dark shadow over the rosy portrait. IF Foroohar's snapshot of the nation is generally accurate, let's hope it can absorb more democratic values over time. But, wedged between volatile Algeria and unpredictable Libya, a truer democracy in Tunisia might take a while.
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#107439 - 06-03-03 05:35 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Good post Zero.
I have a question, if you know the answer: Has Tunisia been successful in dispelling or overcoming Islamicist political parties with totalitarian goals? If so, what did they do that contributed to the success?
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#107440 - 06-03-03 05:47 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
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The article says "By 1987 Bourguiba was losing power to a rising fundamentalist movement, and the then-Prime Minister Ben Ali took his place in the presidential palace. In a bloodless coup that became known as The Change, Ben Ali squashed the fundamentalists and launched market reforms that made Tunisia a model for the International Monetary Fund."
Sounds like Mr.Ben Ali took care of the fundies the way that Augustino Pinochet took care of the commies, by locking up and disappearing the hard core and then improving the economy with free market "Chicago School" reforms.
No reason that this winning strategy could not be applied successfully in other Arab countries.
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#107441 - 06-03-03 08:40 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Got to love a man who speaks approvingly of a mass murderer. :rolleyes:
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#107442 - 06-03-03 08:45 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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WalkerTom
Author
Registered: 07-10-01
Posts: 38224
Loc: Dixie
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Hey, Zero. I hear TUnisia's in the running for The 2010 World Cup. Goooooooooaaaaalllll!
_________________________
BECK / PALIN / 2012!
LET'S GET CRAZY!
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#107443 - 06-03-03 09:23 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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toxteth o'grady
Uncivil Engineer
Registered: 10-24-01
Posts: 64784
Loc: At the airport
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So why is it that the Emirates are buying all the big airplanes?
_________________________
"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#107444 - 06-03-03 09:50 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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I have a question, if you know the answer: Has Tunisia been successful in dispelling or overcoming Islamicist political parties with totalitarian goals? If so, what did they do that contributed to the success?
Tunisia has been very successful with few exceptions in fighting Islamic fundamentalism. But the factors that perhaps contributed to the success may not work or do not yet exist elsewhere in the Middle East. The main group of Islamic extremists are al-Nahdha, who are thought to be responsible for the Synagogue bombing in Djerba last year… I should note, it’s the only act of terrorism that I can recall ever taking place in Tunisia.
For one, Ben Ali was the former Minister of Interior prior to becoming Prime Minister, and then President, so I think it would be hard to find a better suited leader to fight the fundies, or as they’re called in Tunis, the “Khwanjia”
Another contributing factor is Tunisia’s small size (10 million… used to be 8 million in the 1980’s) combined with a tight security apparatus. Just for reference, Tunisia probably has a bigger budget allotted to the Ministry of Interior than it does to the Ministry of Defense (we’ve never had much of a military or a history of war) and a very sophisticated national ID card system and digital fingerprint database for every citizen.
Lastly, but not least, Tunisia has always had a large middle class, and the government has done a good job of providing services (free health care, education…etc.) to the populace. This is important, because the Islamic extremists typically thrive in countries where corrupt governments neglect the people (the fundie’s fill the gap by providing Islamic schools, hospitals, protection…etc. and use them as tools for indoctrination) as was for example the case in Algeria where the Islamic fundamentalists won the elections in the 1980’s.
Although the article was primarily focused on manufacturing and industry, I should point out that the services sector (i.e. tourism) represents a very large portion of the GDP. Tunisia in fact has the most developed tourist infrastructure in all of Africa and employs a large segment of the population all the way down to street vendors peddling ceramics and other handicrafts. Essentially, if the livelihood of a substantial part of the population is based on foreign visitors, mostly Europeans, you tend not to be inclined to riddle your meal ticket with bullets.
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#107445 - 06-11-03 10:24 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Interesting point about Tunesia having a large middle class, many of whom depend on the tourist industry for their livlihood.
That may explain why it appears that the local malcontents had to import some out of town talent for the Djerba bombing according to this article.
German officials have said Ganczarski was born in Poland and is a naturalized German citizen.
A U.S. official said he was born in Gleiwitz, now Gliwice in southern Poland, in October 1966, and that he and his wife had converted to Islam.
When his arrest was announced, French police said he was suspected of links both to the Djerba bombing that killed 21 people and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, but it was not clear what role he may have played in either.
Egypt's economy is still suffering from the blow it's tourist industry took when the Muslim Brotherhood shot a bunch of tourists a few years ago.
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#107446 - 01-06-04 02:13 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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Tunisian President to Visit Washington 01.06.2004
Tunisian President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali is scheduled to visit the White House in the first week of February 2004. The invitation was extended by US Secretary of State Colin Powell during his tour of the Maghreb region of North Africa in December of 2002. In related news, President Bush recently appointed William John Hudson, of Virginia for the position of US Ambassador to the Republic of Tunisia. Mr. Hudson's nomination has been sent to the Senate and is still pending.
http://www.capitolgrilling.com/
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#107447 - 01-06-04 06:34 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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"...but look closer: the media and Internet are censored. Portraits of President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali are everywhere. Speaking out against Ben Ali is a quick ticket to jail, even torture—but not to a grave. This is an important distinction. Diplomats in Tunis say Ben Ali runs a soft dictatorship, more like Singapore or South Korea in the 1980s than like some other Arab countries today."
Perhaps Bush will be getting helpful tips on how he can turn the the US into a "soft dictatorship."
He's already tested the water with his "if you aren't with us you're againt us" mantra. He's managed to censor the media by using "embedded" journalists. And with the ever expanding Patriot Act, he'll have free reign on the Internet to spy on everyone's private correspondence, etc., without reservation and without nary a nod to anyone's constitutional rights, have people declared as "persons of interest" and haul them away to undisclosed locations for undetermined lengthe of time, no miranda rights, no legal representation, no phone call required.
But the social programs - free healthcare, education, etc., combined with low poverty and a thriving economy in Tunisia do throw a bit of a wrench into Bush's plans for the future of the United States.
Of course, the faster Bush can plunge the population of the US into dire straights, the faster he'll be able to get his army of desperate minimum wage workforce minions in place to compete with China, Mexico, India.
The Notorious M.O.I.
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#107448 - 01-06-04 09:46 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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eblank
Member
Registered: 10-04-01
Posts: 2675
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Dubai works too.
_________________________
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" --Samuel Johnson
"War is the health of the state" --Randolph Bourne
"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations--entangling alliances with none, I deem one of the essential principles of our government" --Thomas Jefferson
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin
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#107449 - 01-07-04 12:53 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Spodbox
Member
Registered: 08-15-02
Posts: 1429
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Tunisia was in the 98 world cup. Lost its three games, tho.
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#107450 - 01-07-04 12:59 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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Yes, but the team (which was not the regular national team, btw) makes it pretty consistently into the World Cup, Olympics, African Championships...etc.
Tunisia had pretty decent competition in its category... Belgium, Russia and Japan if I recall correctly. Most of the games were close.
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#107451 - 01-09-04 12:22 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Kitten
Member
Registered: 07-10-01
Posts: 5602
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Tunisia is the homeland of my patron saint.
I have a soft spot for Tunisia as my spiritual homeland.
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#107452 - 02-13-04 10:48 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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Tunisia goes cup final crazy
TUNIS, Tunisia (CNN) -- Football frenzy is gripping the Tunisian capital this weekend as the host team takes on fierce north African rivals Morocco in the final of soccer's African Nations Cup.
Such is the charged atmosphere that the price of black-market tickets for Saturday's match at the 65,000-seat Rades stadium in Tunis has gone though the roof.
A 7 dinar ($6) ticket before the game was going for 30 dinars ($25) -- around a week's wages -- and a 50 dinar ($42) best-seat-in-the-stadium fetched 300 dinars ($250).
"People are chasing tickets like they are gold," says Africa Soccer Magazine editor Emmanuel Maradas, who has been reporting on the tournament for CNN. "The build-up to the final here has been incredible."
All week cars with horns blaring and flags waving have been parading the red-and-white of the national team, and soccer writers have put Tunisia favorites on the basis of their "intimidating crowd."
- snip -
This has been a tournament dominated by former French colonies in north Africa. Before their team was knocked out by Morocco, Algerian fans showing similar passion -- right up to a mini-riot.
Although most of the other teams had a small band of traveling fans, from a few dozen to several hundred, they could not, in such numbers, bring an all-Africa atmosphere to the contest.
Young fan: A Tunisian woman feeds her baby during the Nigeria game.
Says Maradas: "The north African teams just tried harder. They practiced more. The big boys of African football -- Cameroon and Nigeria -- arrived thinking they were sure to make the final."
On Wednesday night, Tunisia upset the form-book when they beat Nigeria in the semi-final on penalties to set up a final clash against Morocco. Since then, Tunisians have gone football crazy.
Street vendors have been selling Tunisian flags and jerseys on street corners, huge flags are draped out of windows in houses and apartments, and in cafes and shops there is just one main topic of conversation.
- snip -
Tunisia has more to play for in Saturday's final than the African title. Officials are hoping that if they can successfully stage the spectacle with fans' tempers contained by thousands of police, they will be in line to hold soccer's World Cup itself in 2010.
Read Full Article
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#107453 - 02-13-04 10:59 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Jerk Store
Grill Chef
Registered: 01-30-03
Posts: 2676
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Does anybody else agree that free trade is one reason Tunisia is competing and growing? It's hard to come away from that article with any other impression.
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#107454 - 02-15-04 12:29 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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UrbanEnnui
Member
Registered: 07-17-01
Posts: 1012
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Here's how our local paper reported it (short - I know, sorry):
Tunisia: This small but relatively prosperous nation was struck with football (or soccer, to Americans) fever after winning its first ever African Cup of Nations title in a home-turf game on the 14th. The underdog Tunisians defeated the favored Moroccans with tenacity and a tough defense - though a late-in-the-game keeper misstep by the Moroccans helped seal the deal.
And Jerk Store, while a healthy attitude towards free trade undoubtedly benefits Tunisia, I can think of quite a few other factors at play here, including the country's long-standing dedication towards education, its natural attraction and appeal as a tourism destination, its relative non-fanaticism (yeah, yeah, I know that a Tunisian was recently arrested in the attempts on Pakistan's Musharraf's life, but that kind of thing is fairly rare). It's a chicken vs. the egg argument, basically, and I'm going with the egg, because I don't think that little capitalist chicken could've broken free without the proper conditions (i.e. the warmth of a tolerant society, the cushioning of economic potential, etc.).
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#107456 - 03-30-04 11:24 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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I smell a story behind this announcement, but not exactly sure what to make of it... I'm not alone. Most of the Arab world seems also perplexed by the cancellation of the conference.
Arab League weighs rescheduling summit
"The secretary-general will conduct consultations with the Arab leaders on the place, date and content of the summit that should be headed by Tunis," a senior official in the Arab League told CNN.
The official said "it is very doubtful" that the two-day annual summit would begin April 16, as was suggested by Yemen, but added, "it is expected to be held within three to seven weeks."
Morocco announced that Arab foreign ministers planned to meet in Cairo, Egypt, in "the next few weeks" to study the possibility of holding a new summit.
Meanwhile, Tunisia has not renounced its presidency of the Arab League and remains prepared to play host to a summit of its 22 heads of state, President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali said Monday.
Ben Ali made the statement during a meeting with Foreign Minister Habib Ben Yahia, the official Tunisian news agency TAP reported. It was Ben Ali's first comment since the abrupt weekend announcement that the summit was being canceled because of differences over political changes.
Expressing "astonishment and regret" Sunday over Tunisia's move, Egypt offered to play host to the summit in Cairo, the Arab League headquarters. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said Arab leaders could meet within three weeks.
Read Full Article
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#107457 - 08-19-05 02:49 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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I don't know how many of you follow soccer or are interested in the next World Cup... Tunisia may be the African Champion a second time if the winning streak continues...
Tunisia see clear route to Germany
In June of this year, while Tunisia were taking part in the FIFA Confederations Cup, Kenya did some important groundwork for Roger Lemerre's men by holding then Group 5 leaders Morocco to a goalless draw.
That result placed Tunisia's FIFA World Cup™ destiny within their own hands and meant that provided they could win their own postponed game against the Kenyans, the African champions would take over the top spot in their qualifying group.
-snip-
On 3 September, Tunisia will head to Kenya with the aim of picking up a positive result. But whatever transpires in Nairobi, they will still be in the running come the crunch match on the final day. On 7 October, the reigning African champions play host to Morocco, who will need to produce a great performance.
This rerun of the 2004 CAF African Cup of Nations final promises to be quite a battle and in a six-pointer such as this, the vociferous backing of a packed stadium will be a definite advantage. The Tunisians know they are tantalisingly close to fulfilling their dream…
Full Article
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#107458 - 08-23-05 09:51 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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NYC
Junior Member
Registered: 10-08-04
Posts: 23
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I went to Tunisia once; it seemed nice. Will they still have us?
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#107459 - 08-25-05 10:52 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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toxteth o'grady
Uncivil Engineer
Registered: 10-24-01
Posts: 64784
Loc: At the airport
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As far as I know, Tunisia has never really had a beef with us, and they don't appear to be suffering the same kind of extremist violence that plagues Algeria.
_________________________
"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#107460 - 08-25-05 11:39 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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It's one of the countries on our list -- apparently it is wonderful to visit.
http://www.tourismtunisia.com/
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#107461 - 08-25-05 11:47 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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toxteth o'grady
Uncivil Engineer
Registered: 10-24-01
Posts: 64784
Loc: At the airport
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"I don't care if it comes with an all-expenses-paid holiday in Tunisia, contraceptives supplied!"
_________________________
"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#107462 - 09-01-05 09:49 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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A sea change in Tunisia
TUNIS, Tunisia (CNN) -- Sea water has long been recognized as being good for the health.
And now the North African nation of Tunisia is finding that salty brine is also good for the health of its economy.
Although 5 million tourists flock to its sandy beaches every year, the country has decided that a new and trendy way of using sea water will bring in better revenues than appealing solely to the traditional buck and spade holiday maker.
It all comes down to a method of bathing known as thalassotherapy -- a sea water cure based on ocean or sea heated to body temperature and much beloved by the French of a certain age and certain bank balance.
With over 250,000 people employed in seasonal tourism, and a further 90,000 year-round full-time employees, tourism tops Tunisia's other industries as a foreign currency earner.
Read Full Article
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#107463 - 11-19-05 01:20 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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For those of you that are blogophites, I found a rather interesting Tunisian blog complete with pictures along with each entry:
Mouse Hunter Evolution Blog
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#107464 - 11-19-05 01:57 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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That blog is great! The enthusiasm is infectious, and the spelling alone made me smile -- all the "peapole" having a good time! (Better than my Arabic, however.)
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#107465 - 11-19-05 12:26 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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later gator
Member
Registered: 11-12-05
Posts: 4361
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So Zero, are you a native born Tunisian?
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#107466 - 11-19-05 01:23 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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(Zero, we agree with pdc, that's a great blog. And we're not just kissing up like pdc obviously was.
We think Gambit might enjoy the last entry:
I won't miss this video of Van our famous guitar player from Menzel Bourguiba, back after the summer holidays he seems getting fatter and smarter, Imed have taken this video while playing with his guitar.)
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#107467 - 11-19-05 02:43 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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"So Zero, are you a native born Tunisian?
Yes.
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#107468 - 11-19-05 05:00 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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later gator
Member
Registered: 11-12-05
Posts: 4361
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Zero, Cool.
So how do you like the soft dictatorship approach?
I suppose ultimately a well run gummit of whatever style beats a poorly run gummit.
I have been known to consider that Mafia style organized crime is in most ways a more effective, cost efficient and fair form of gummit that complex central democracies.
At least in Mafia run societies everyone was subject to the same laws, and the cost of enforcement only 10% of income. The same price the church exacts for a weaker delivery of order.
What is your insiders view on what is working well in Tunisia and why??
What would you change in response?
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#107469 - 11-19-05 05:31 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Dark Matter
Member
Registered: 04-16-05
Posts: 530
Loc: Idaho
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That was an excellent post. Maybe there is some hope afterall. I will ad.....
Very rich in resources and a major port province of North Africa. Only socialism could wreck that scenario.
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#107470 - 11-19-05 06:24 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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toxteth o'grady
Uncivil Engineer
Registered: 10-24-01
Posts: 64784
Loc: At the airport
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(And we're not just kissing up like pdc obviously was.)
Ants also claims she doesn't lie...
_________________________
"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#107472 - 11-20-05 12:35 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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later gator
Member
Registered: 11-12-05
Posts: 4361
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Dark Matter,
what actually is your definition of socialism, and why would it "wreck" that scenario?
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#107473 - 11-20-05 02:17 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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"Only socialism could wreck that scenario."
While I am not a fan of full-fledged socialist systems, a lot of the successes Tunisia has achieved can be directly linked to a socialist system implemented by Bourguiba since Tunisia gained independence in 1956... a healthcare and education system which has led to the highest literacy rate in the Arab world and a large (albeit shrinking) middle class which is a huge factor in the relative stability enjoyed by the country compared to other Middle Eastern and African countries. This in turn allowed for a environment stable enough for more capitalist activities and the proper environment conducive to private sector growth.
I would argue that it is thanks to a French socialist system that Tunisia was and is still at the forefront of women's rights in the Arab world. It is also thanks to this legacy that poverty is not nearly as acute as elsewhere robbing the Islamic extremists of another refuge and pool from which to recruit.
And while pure socialism is neither desirable nor conducive to progress, neither is the opposite extreme of pure capitalism which often leads to high corruption, wholesale liquidation of national resources to foreign interests to the benefit of the few. To some extent, Tunisia is experiencing the latter phenomenon and the gap between the rich and poor is widening. While Tunisia's economic growth remains strong, this is not necessarily translating to lower unemployment or an improvement in the quality of life for the average citizen and there are trends that are worrying and are to some extent a product of capitalism; For instance, property ownership especially among the poor is on the decline and personal debt is on the rise especially as the culture becomes more consumer-driven. When I was growing up, even the poorest families owned their homes and operated on a cash basis whereas many in the younger generations can no longer afford to buy or build homes and have to stretch their wages to service loans for vehicles and other purchases which were not as common before.
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#107474 - 11-20-05 02:19 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Interesting - I made the same comment on another thread, that neither pure socialism nor pure capitalism is a good system. A mixed economy serves most cultures best. I find it interesting that many people throw the word "socialism" around as though it was a nasty concept, but never or rarely take the same attitude toward "capitalism." Extremes of either are not good.
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#107475 - 11-20-05 08:30 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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toxteth o'grady
Uncivil Engineer
Registered: 10-24-01
Posts: 64784
Loc: At the airport
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"Interesting - I made the same comment on another thread, that neither pure socialism nor pure capitalism is a good system. A mixed economy serves most cultures best."
It seems to serve the Canadians very well.
_________________________
"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#107476 - 11-20-05 09:02 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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later gator
Member
Registered: 11-12-05
Posts: 4361
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It isn't really apples and apples.
Capitalism is an economic form, whereas Socialism is a governmental form. Neither can or have ever existed in pure forms.
The two kinda frame them selves to represent the competing interests of Business and generational wealth vs the needs of the citizens in general. Book ends of a classic class struggle, eternally in flux.
There are lots and lots of government and economic forms and combinations of the two that have never been attempted.
All things considered I am pretty much done with capitalism as the prime economic form, it is sociopathic in nature and disregards the true costs of everything, focusing on short term profits as its sole motivation. Capitalism is essentially at odds with all living things and designed to serve the elite wealthy class.
Socialism, hmm. Corporations love socialism as long as it is is corporate socialism.
I think we could do a whole lot better choosing from more imaginative economic and governmental forms.
But in the interim, settle for a compromise.
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#107477 - 12-09-05 01:29 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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Fish Boner
Junior Member
Registered: 10-02-01
Posts: 160
Loc: Newark, New Jersey
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Zero, a small contribution to your thread about Tunisia:
Science in Tunisia
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#107478 - 02-14-06 08:52 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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Rumsfeld Says N. Africa No Terror Haven
IFRANE, Morocco -- Winding up three days of talks with North African leaders, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Monday he is confident that al-Qaida and other terrorist groups will fail to find a haven in this Muslim region.
At a news conference after meeting with King Mohammed VI at his royal retreat in the Atlas Mountains, Rumsfeld was asked what risk he saw of Islamic extremist groups putting down roots in Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia.
-snip-
Rumsfeld came to North Africa to try to strengthen U.S. military ties to Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. All three are viewed by the Bush administration as important allies in the global fight against terrorism -- not least because they have spoken out publicly against Islamic extremism and terrorism.
Morocco is the United States' oldest ally in North Africa. The relationship began with a treaty of friendship in the late 18th century. After a successful North Africa campaign in World War II, U.S. forces continued to make use of Moroccan airfields and other military facilities.
Read Full Article
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#107479 - 08-12-06 01:05 PM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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I'm uploading various pics of Tunisia to the a Gallery at zeroflux.
Click on the graphic under the navigation menu to view the photos. Check back often as I have a lot more to upload.
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#118618 - 10-31-06 10:45 AM
Minimalist chic with maximum style in Tunisia
[Re: zeroflux]
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Dinkus Monkeysperm
Junior Member
Registered: 08-31-03
Posts: 20
Loc: The Zoo
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Minimalist chic with maximum style in Tunisia
PARIS, New York, St Tropez, Tunis? Er, surely some mistake? But no, the capital of Tunisia is fast becoming the next cool place to enjoy a winter break.
The ten-room boutique hotel Villa Didon is popular with city suits and expats who gather in its Le Light bar and Rest’ô restaurant with panoramic views.
As is the case with all modern minimalist hotels, Didon isn’t everyone’s cuppa. I didn’t much like the crimson-and -purple cube seats, or the cold feel of the Perspex bar. However, I loved the light, airy rooms with lots of glass and open, sexy bathrooms (the lavatory is separate) with granite tubs and lots of chrome.
Full Article
Edited by zeroflux (01-04-07 10:21 AM)
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#128873 - 12-08-06 11:15 AM
Re: Tunisia - A Successful Arab Economy
[Re: zeroflux]
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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Tunisia invites nip/tuck tourism
TUNIS, Tunisia (Reuters) -- Melinda Tricoli sits beaming with joy in a four-star Tunisian hotel after an operation to flatten her stomach.
"I'm so happy. I feel up with the angels. It's spotless, a job well done," she enthuses.
Tricoli caught a plane from her native France to Tunisia after a botched job by a French surgeon left her with three lumps on her stomach.
"It was a nightmare. I thought I'd never have a flat belly. Now everything is OK, I'm going to enjoy myself and visit a few sights, even if I have to walk slowly."
Already a popular sun-and-sea destination boasting ancient ruins as well, Tunisia wants to lure more tourists on high budgets by improving quality and diversifying away from the traditional beach market. Medical tourism is one way to do this.
"There is a growing European fad for plastic surgery in Tunisia. It could become a hub for medical tourism," said Slim Ben Yeder, manager of the Soukra Clinic in Tunis.
The tourism industry has grown into the former French colony's top foreign currency earner and the biggest employer after the farming sector.
The north African country received 6.4 million holidaymakers last year, bringing in $1.98 billion.
"A traditional tourist spends between 300 and 400 euros during his stay," Ben Yeder said. "But a medical tourist spends 2,500 to 4,000 euros at least."
No more wrinkles and real breasts
Just a short flight from Europe, Tunisia has one of Africa's most developed health infrastructures, skilled medical staff -- many of whom have trained in Europe and the United States -- as well as the traditional tourism attractions.
But it is arriving late on the medical tourism scene. The industry has taken off in many developing countries in the last 10 years as the price of cosmetic surgery in Europe and the United States soared.
Read Full Article
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#144640 - 02-23-07 11:16 PM
Aiding Democracy Op-Ed
[Re: zeroflux]
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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I sent a reply (posted below article) in response to this Op-Ed in the Washinton Post:
A good place to have aided democracy
TUNIS -- "If you wanted to support democracy in the Arab world, why did you begin with your enemies instead of your friends? Why Iraq and Iran? Why not us?"
It's an excellent question, and when it was posed to me a few days ago by Mokhtar Trifi, president of the Tunisian League for the Defense of Human Rights, I at first found it hard to answer. Trifi, whose dark suit and elegant French make him seem like the statesman he ought to be, does indeed seem a far better candidate for American friendship and support than, say, the prime minister of Iraq. Because Tunisia also seems, on the surface, much closer to the West than many of its neighbors, it makes a curious example of what might have been.
Like Turkey, Tunisia is an avowedly secular Muslim state: Women here have the right to divorce and to marry as they please. Most do not wear headscarves, let alone veils. Much of the economy is private: The average income has risen in recent decades, and the middle class is relatively well educated. On a Friday afternoon in the suburbs of Tunis, every other street corner seems to feature a lycee, from which pour crowds of blue-jeaned teenagers, boys and girls, chatting and laughing. Ask them and they will tell you they feel more Mediterranean than Arab, that they have more in common with Parisians than with Syrians or Saudis.
Full Text of Op-Ed
Response to Op-Ed:
Hi Anne,
I have to disagree with your Op-Ed and I am offering my response as a Tunisian-American with some insight into both US and Tunisian cultures. I should note that although I have not been back to Tunisia in over 10 years, I was born there and studied in Tunis through the 5th year of Lycee (Secondaire) which is equivalent to Junior year of High school in the US.
While I agree to some extent that democracy in Tunisia could potentially yield results similar to Turkey, that outcome is slim at the moment given the status-quo in the world. Any attempt to exert pressure on moderate countries such as Tunisia would more likely give an "in" to the "Khwanjiyya" or Islamic Fundamentalists. Perhaps you should revisit the history of the 1992 Islamicist (FLS) electoral win in Algeria, and the bloody civil war which ensued after the military voided the results or more recently or more recently, Hamas' huge win in the Palestine and Hezbollah's influence in Lebanese Parliament.
I believe that if democracy were to be implemented with a safeguard of outlawing religious parties, it could be successful in principle, especially in a moderate westernized society such as Tunisia, but the political realities of today point towards a much darker outcome, one where the Islamic extremists though not in the majority, would use the opening to destabilize the government and intimidate the remainder of society using the mantra of religion and rosy visions of an Islamic utopia.
In essence, I am saying that it is the wrong time and a dangerous time to be beating the drums of democracy. I also draw an important distinction between democracy and personal freedom. While the former may not exist in Tunisia, citizens enjoy the latter, perhaps to a greater extent than they do in US society, which is increasingly suffocated with laws regulating almost every aspect of our lives. I hope never to see the phenomenon of homeowners associations, county building codes, smoking bans, fishing licenses and level of intrusion of County, City, State and Federal government found here, in Tunisia.
The present government may be Putinisque in its actions, but it offers what I believe is the right balance needed at this time to thwart the Islamicist threat and maintain a stable environment for the economy and tourism to continue to thrive. I would suggest that the tradeoff is a fair one: the inability to elect political representatives vs. the ability to earn a living in a safe and stable society, increasingly a rarity in the Middle East and North Africa.
With Algeria and Libya as neighboring examples of the potential risks of democratization on one hand and a slightly less “benevolent” dictatorship on the other, I believe Mr. Trifi is peddling visions of democracy that most Tunisians would not support once they weigh the risks involved and the potential effect on the economy, stability of the country and their livelihood.
From a US perspective, you would think we have learned the lessons of giving refuge to political antagonists of other nations and a voice to the Ahmed Chalabi’s of the world.
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#144645 - 02-23-07 11:27 PM
Re: Aiding Democracy Op-Ed
[Re: zeroflux]
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BuffaloGal
Member
Registered: 07-28-06
Posts: 12029
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You are correct, Zero - and a close look at Turkey will indicate exactly how right you are. Turkey has been secular by law since 1919, its secularism enforced by a military-supported government. It has worked very well, but is starting to crumble, as Islamists infiltrate the military, the government, the police force, and the education system. Eventually they will have enough numbers to overturn the law, and Turkey will become another religious state.
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#146281 - 03-03-07 11:33 AM
Tunisia Pastries Hit the US Market
[Re: zeroflux]
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zeroflux
Administrator
Registered: 03-11-01
Posts: 6175
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
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Masmoudi, the Tunisian family-owned maker of traditional mouthwatering sweets now has operations in the US, Tampa to be exact.
This is a very exciting moment for me as my sweet tooth is legendary and several members of my family have issued warrants for my arrest due to the pillaging their stock of Ka3k (Kaa-ak: the Tunisian version of a doughnut, stuffed with almond paste)and Mlabess (the delicious almond-stuffed pastries that oddly resemble funny shaped eggs). 
The arts & crafts themed presentation of the pastry assortment is a treat onto itself. The full length video demonstrating the logistics and processes involved with making the little bites of heaven is fascinating.
I would encourage our users to place an order and sample some of Masmoudi's offerings. I guarantee you will be going back for more. Some of the more ornate pastry arrangements would also make a unique gift.
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#152898 - 03-30-07 10:55 AM
Re: Tunisia Pastries Hit the US Market
[Re: zeroflux]
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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(
State Dept. Warns: Be Careful Overseas, 3/30/07
In the oil-rich Gulf nation of Qatar, the population of fewer than 900,000 racks up an astounding 70,000 traffic accidents per year, its report says.
"Drivers often maneuver erratically and at high speed, demonstrate little road discipline or courtesy, fail to turn on their headlights during hours of darkness or inclement weather, and do not use seat belts," it says.
Sound bad? Well, it may be worse in Tunisia.
"Among their many traits, local drivers rarely use lanes designated for turns, often cut across multiple lanes of traffic, rarely look before changing lanes, do not yield the right of way when merging, commonly run through red lights without stopping, and generally drive oblivious to other vehicles on the road," the Tunisia report says.)
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#153969 - 04-03-07 07:54 PM
Re: Tunisia Pastries Hit the US Market
[Re: ]
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toxteth o'grady
Uncivil Engineer
Registered: 10-24-01
Posts: 64784
Loc: At the airport
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(Among their many traits, local drivers rarely use lanes designated for turns, often cut across multiple lanes of traffic, rarely look before changing lanes, do not yield the right of way when merging, commonly run through red lights without stopping, and generally drive oblivious to other vehicles on the road," the Tunisia report says.)
That's nothing. There's a video making the rounds showing a US Humvee in Baghdad weaving through traffic, bumping other vehicles from behind and eventually crossing a raised median and driving on the wrong side of the road against oncoming traffic at breackneck speed. Why? To get to the other side...
_________________________
"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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