Capitol Grilling: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation

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#8892 - 04-17-04 04:55 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
The Unsomnambulist The Unsomnambulist Member Registered: 08-03-01 Posts: 1658 Loc: Hollywood, CA	The hybrid vehicles sound awesome, between the quieter, smoother ride and the phenomenal gas mileage... but what it all comes down to is price of the initial investment. I haven't done a lot of comparisons, but to spend $5000 more on a hybrid vs. a comparable vehicle in the same class seems ludicrous.
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#8893 - 04-17-04 06:29 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
american woman american woman Moderator Magnifique Registered: 11-10-01 Posts: 4484 Loc: San Diego	At first I was thinking, hey, Zero's trying to get on my good side, I wonder what he wants? After taking the poll, I realized Zero must have missed the go-zillians of times I've bored everyone out of their gored with tales of the blue-moon-pearl Prius. You're missing some options on your poll. For instance: How likely are you to purchase a hybrid vehicle? A) Extremely Likely? B) Very Likely? C) Not Likely? D)Absolutely Not My answer is: E) Dude, where have you been? I got my Prius two years ago. Prius Ordered: August 2001. Prius Delivered: December 30, 2001. $2000 Tax Credit Taken: April 15, 2002.
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#8894 - 04-17-04 10:14 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
WalkerTom WalkerTom Author Registered: 07-10-01 Posts: 38295 Loc: Dixie	Toyota has better hybrid tech than Honda does. I also noticed that the price of the Toyota Hybrid has increased drastically this past year. At $27K with a six month wait, I might go for the VW Golf TDI for gas mileage and price and hope I can maybe afford a postage-stamp-size Toyota Hybrid in a couple years. _________________________ BECK / PALIN / 2012! CUZ WE DESERVE IT!!!
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#8895 - 04-17-04 11:14 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
aHooGUH aHooGUH Member Registered: 04-10-04 Posts: 1151	Toyota's pricing is typical for any new product. They're recovering development costs before the technology becomes common and production volumes aren't high enough to leverage the production costs. The early buyers of any new product can expect to pay more. It's a classical marketing scheme. I dislike polls that ask for the "most" in any question since some answers may be very close. The best polls allow multiple answers and allow the taker to 'weight' the responses. Those polls, using simple addition and ratios, give better indications of the responders' positions - assuming the question is worth a damn.
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#8896 - 04-17-04 11:29 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
WalkerTom WalkerTom Author Registered: 07-10-01 Posts: 38295 Loc: Dixie	So you are saying that in a couple of years The Toyota Hybrid will be back to its Pre-Gas Price Rise retail cost? Ever seen a Car Price go down? _________________________ BECK / PALIN / 2012! CUZ WE DESERVE IT!!!
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#8897 - 04-17-04 12:07 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Spodbox Spodbox Member Registered: 08-15-02 Posts: 1429	This is funny because I was at a Toyota dealer yesterday asking to test-drive a prius. They said they didn't have any available for the next 9 to 11 months! There was a waiting list 70 persons long. The dealer said that he thought they had severely underestimated the demand for the model.
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#8898 - 04-17-04 04:55 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Cazadore Bolivar Cazadore Bolivar Member Registered: 03-16-03 Posts: 1658	I wish there was a different choice for #3, Zero. I was in a bind - had to answer either "very likely" or "not likely," whereas my preferred answer would be "possibly."
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#8899 - 04-17-04 07:03 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Just curious on those things. Where does all that electic juice that those batteries gobble up come from? Just guessing here. Coal burning, steam turbine plants? Another guess. By the time they get rolling in earnest, they will be obsolete.
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#8900 - 04-17-04 07:46 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Paris of Troy Paris of Troy Member Registered: 07-15-01 Posts: 3465	"Ever seen a Car Price go down?" I believe the price of a Hummer has come down from what it was when the first civilian version came out six or eight years ago, WT.
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#8901 - 04-18-04 12:27 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Spinguru Spinguru Junior Member Registered: 05-24-01 Posts: 148 Loc: Washington, DC	Zero: Another benefit of owning a energy conserving car in Virginia, with special license tags, is that you can drive the HOV lanes until July 1, 2006 with only one person (the driver) in the car. From VDOT: If your vehicle is powered exclusively by clean special fuel, including compressed natural gas, electricity, liquefied natural gas and solar energy; and is registered with clean special fuel license plates, you are permitted to use HOV lanes until July 1, 2006. Hybrid fuel vehicles (i.e., gasoline engines that are assisted with electricity) that are registered with clean special fuel license plates also qualify to use the HOV lanes.
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#8902 - 04-18-04 12:33 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Spodbox Spodbox Member Registered: 08-15-02 Posts: 1429	Eleven: the cars we are talking about aren't those cheap ones you have to plug in. These are electric-gasoline hybrid cars. The electricity that the batteries use comes from charging while the gasoline engine is running. That's why these cars have odd power stats. For example, the 2004 Prius has an electric engine with 67 hp, a gas engine with 76 hp, for a combined total of 110 hp. They're a bit like using a regular car's alternator to charge up a battery for a second engine. Consequently, they get up to 63 mpg.
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#8903 - 04-18-04 01:03 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
toxteth o'grady toxteth o'grady Uncivil Engineer Registered: 10-24-01 Posts: 64784 Loc: At the airport	"Just curious on those things. Where does all that electic juice that those batteries gobble up come from?" Gasoline. But they burn much less of it than a conventional vehicle. That's the beauty of the vehicle that eludes the average right-winger... _________________________ "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#8904 - 04-18-04 01:05 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
toxteth o'grady toxteth o'grady Uncivil Engineer Registered: 10-24-01 Posts: 64784 Loc: At the airport	"I believe the price of a Hummer has come down from what it was when the first civilian version came out six or eight years ago" I've heard there are parts of DC where the price of a Hummer is very reasonable indeed. _________________________ "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#8905 - 04-18-04 01:09 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Gasoline batteries...I guess I am behind the techno times. I am a centrist, not a right winger.
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#8906 - 04-18-04 01:18 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
toxteth o'grady toxteth o'grady Uncivil Engineer Registered: 10-24-01 Posts: 64784 Loc: At the airport	Whatever... _________________________ "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" --Abe Lincoln
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#8907 - 04-18-04 01:30 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Paris of Troy Paris of Troy Member Registered: 07-15-01 Posts: 3465	"Gasoline. But they burn much less of it than a conventional vehicle. That's the beauty of the vehicle that eludes the average right-winger..." I'm not sure about that. I was at the Auto Show in NYC last Spring and you couldn't get near the Hummer. There were two of them, and you couldn't get near either one for crowd of people around them. On the other side of the room was the little Prius with its hood up, and the engine and transmission were cut in half, as with a giant band saw. The castings and the closely fit machined parts were beautiful; it was really fascinating, but no one was interested in it at all. Here's a link describing the theory of a modern hybrid engine, and the Prius in particular. Alternative Power Systems From the link: "To start the engine, the VVTi [variable valve timing] system increases valve overlap to reduce compression. The generator/motor then spins the engine up to about 1000 rpm. As soon as the engine is spinning up to speed, compression is brought back on line along with spark and fuel and the engine is running. No typical starter noise, no bucking, no lurching, just a smooth, almost unnoticed transition of power from electric drive to gasoline engine power ... ... If there is no load on the generator, then the engine will simply spin the generator through the planetary gears and not be able to move the car. This is what happens when the selector is in Neutral or Park. If a load is placed on the generator, either to charge the battery or to directly power the electric motor, then a portion of the engine's power will be directed through the planetary gear to the drive wheels to move the vehicle. By regulating the load on the generator, the engine RPM can be held constant while accelerating the car, thereby acting like an infinitely variable transmission." The result is that you get an internal combustion engine with a torque curve similar to an electric motor. Prius Torque Curve A sweet piece of work, no?
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#8908 - 04-18-04 04:25 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	It's not just gas consumption, it's also emissions. Hybrid vehicles emit less pollution. With all that California has done regarding emissions regulations, Los Angeles is still the worst city in the US when it comes to smog. But then, SoCal has a lot of the tiny dick, big car mentality, particularly in the celebrity arena (film and TV stars, athletes, etc.). The more celebs who get on board with hybrid And alternate fuel vehicles, the more you will see these cars become the "cool" thing to have. Like body piercing, hairstyles, the SUV craze, etc., trends these days are totally celebrity driven. If more celebs drive hybrids and/or AFV's, you'll see more people on the road with them. I still don't understand the idiocy of the Hollywood elite (and any city dweller) who drive around in gas guzzlers when they live within a few miles from where they work (or commute via well paved and maintained freeways) and would never venture off-road or to any area that might require a four wheel drive SUV/Truck. Stoopid is as stoopid does. :rolleyes: If you are looking to buy a new car, please consider both gas consumption AND emissions. If a hybrid is out of reach, there are many smaller cars now that are both fuel efficient and more enviro friendly. If everyone in the country improved their gas mileage from 5-10 mpg's, our oil consumption would decrease considerably. The same with emissions -- cleaner air, less greenhouse gasses, etc. If you just can't possibly exist without feeling the need to drive some big ass gas guzzler to compensate for whatever inferior issues you have, then buy a nice gas and emission friendly vehicle for the majority of your driving and drive your big ass Humvee or gas guzzler only one day a week. Like to the pharmacy on Saturday to pick up your Viagra prescription. I do have a question for AW re: the Prius/hybrid. What's the expiration life/warranty on the battery? I heard that the replacement cost for the battery was around $3,000 (or more) and, because it's a battery that has an expiration life, it will eventually need to be replaced. Is this true? I couldn't find any info re: the battery and replacement cost, battery life, etc., on the Toyota website. The Notorious M.O.I.
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#8909 - 04-18-04 05:21 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Yeah MOI, but then another Volcano blows over in Japan, and all those saved emissions are for naught. Now, I was thinking that maybe the gas part of the engine could be hooked to the batteries with a sort of generater. That way the batteries could be chaged without plugging in. Maybe thats what happens. If so, good job!! But I am not sure that they have invented batteries yet that can handle recharging on a constant basis. But maybe they have. I am no techno guy.
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#8910 - 04-18-04 07:55 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
american woman american woman Moderator Magnifique Registered: 11-10-01 Posts: 4484 Loc: San Diego	No typical starter noise, no bucking, no lurching, just a smooth, almost unnoticed transition of power from electric drive to gasoline engine power All true, Paris. The downside is you have to make this really clear to valet parking people or they won't realize they started the car the FIRST time they keyed it. The instructions are easy though: Look for the "ready" light. What's the expiration life/warranty on the battery? The Hybrid System warranty, which includes the vehicle battery pack is 8 years/100,000 miles. I don't know what the lifetime is thought to be -- I've read 150,000 miles -- nor do I know the replacement cost. I suspect we'll hear more about this when the Prius has been around long enough to exhibit failing battery packs. Technology is improving though. The 2004 Prius, for instance, uses fewer battery units (and gets slightly better gas mileage and still at the same price as the 2002). So that presumably brings down the battery replacement cost. Frosty, the engine does indeed drive a generator to recharge the battery when necessary. Also, when you brake, there's a system that recovers the kinetic energy as electrical energy which is then stored in the battery. There's no "plugging in" of anything. The differences are that city MPG is better than highway MPG and in you go to the gas station less often. Oh, and if you do run out of gas, you can inch your way to the station at 25mpg on the remaining electricity. I don't know how far you can go .. but, er, I DO know that it works for several blocks anyway.
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#8911 - 04-18-04 08:01 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Paris of Troy Paris of Troy Member Registered: 07-15-01 Posts: 3465	Somewhere I read that Toyota repurchased a Prius with 300K miles on it that had been used as a taxi. Upon evaluation, it appeared that the battery pack was still servicable. Otherwise, a new battery with installation costs 128,000 yen or ~$1,200.00.
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#8912 - 04-18-04 08:06 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
aHooGUH aHooGUH Member Registered: 04-10-04 Posts: 1151	Seems like the time saving of of filling it half as often is worth a lot too, at least for people who feel their time is worth something. How big a gasoline tank does it have?
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#8913 - 04-18-04 08:26 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Well American Woman. then that does sound like some worthy progress. Couple million of these Hybrids and open up some new refineries in this country. A little drilling in Alaska and off the Gulf, And sounds like we have righted the ship. Damn this country never fails to amaze me!! I support these hybrids.
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#8914 - 04-18-04 08:41 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Arkham Arkham Cosmic Muffin Registered: 07-10-03 Posts: 3574 Loc: Wisconsin "Eat cheese or ...	More Wind Power; Big Oil's Buffet; Big Oil Wants Wyoming, Too (snip) For several years the oil and gas industry has been campaigning to open nearly 370,000 acres in the Bridger-Teton National Forest to industrialization. The National Forest offered alternative land-use proposals for a period of public comment. More than 2,500 public comments were received, 98 percent of them favoring the Forest Service alternative that would close the area to development. The Forest Service announced that is its choice. The industry hasn't yielded. The wildlands it wants to carve with roads, drill rigs, pumping stations, pipelines, and other facilities includes some of the most prized natural areas of the Greater Yellowstone Ecopsystem. Well known to hikers, campers, fishermen, hunters, horsemen, rafters, and birders are the Moccasin Basin near Jackson, WY, a grizzly bear habitat and winter range for elk and deer; the scenic Hoback Basin traversed by the whitewater Snake River; and the Union Pass and Upper Green River areas adjoining the Gros Ventre Valley and Bridger Wilderness. It includes four rivers eligible for National Wild and Scenic designation. Industry representatives are busy in Washington, hopeful the Bush administration will see it their way. Yes, by all means. let\'s add Wyoming, home of Frosty & Cheney, to the list of oil ventures. We don\'t need all that pristine hunting land. Hell, elk & moose could step over the pipelines.
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#8915 - 04-19-04 08:42 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	we live in a supply vs demand world....and as long as there is demand for hummers...and crewcab duallys....there will be those for the consumer..... when the consumer wants a hybrid car..they will show up at the dealers looking for them...and then the supply will grow.... we cant legislate what folk drive.... we are, after all, free....
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#8916 - 04-19-04 11:44 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Paris of Troy Paris of Troy Member Registered: 07-15-01 Posts: 3465	"we are, after all, free.... " You're old enough to know better.
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#8917 - 04-19-04 09:37 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	were not free?....damn...and all this time ive been duped???
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#8918 - 04-20-04 02:33 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Gore1FL Gore1FL Member Registered: 02-22-02 Posts: 28739	Yeah MOI, but then another Volcano blows over in Japan, and all those saved emissions are for naught. I see we are getting science-free talking points from Rush. _________________________ The Democratic Party Is The Starship Enterprise
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#8919 - 04-20-04 03:54 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Gambit Gambit Terrierist Registered: 07-07-01 Posts: 15381 Loc: The sofa	I've heard replacement battery prices can go as high as $3,000 on these cars. That wouldn't keep me from buying one, but it's something to keep in mind. I am looking forward to baby-sized SUVs in hybrids. That's when I'll be truly interested. I don't want something huge, but a CRV size or RAV4 would be nice. We have dogs and stuff to haul around, so a small SUV (no 4-wheel drive required) is helpful. Not everyone fits into my VW Bug. In other news, VW won't be selling its high-mileage diesel cars again on the California market until 2006 due to new emissions standards. _________________________ The believer is happy. The doubter is wise.
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#8920 - 04-20-04 03:57 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Gambit Gambit Terrierist Registered: 07-07-01 Posts: 15381 Loc: The sofa	we cant legislate what folk drive.... Umm, for all intents and purposes, we already do. _________________________ The believer is happy. The doubter is wise.
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#8921 - 04-20-04 05:00 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Gore1FL Gore1FL Member Registered: 02-22-02 Posts: 28739	we cant legislate what folk drive.... So why do you bother getting an inspection and licensing? Just trying to conform? _________________________ The Democratic Party Is The Starship Enterprise
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#8922 - 04-21-04 01:27 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
american woman american woman Moderator Magnifique Registered: 11-10-01 Posts: 4484 Loc: San Diego	Frosty says, I support these hybrids. You should test drive one, Frosty. They're pretty cool. Toyota has said they plan to produce nothing but hybrid vehicles by 2012. Gambit says, I am looking forward to baby-sized SUVs in hybrids. You may not have to wait too long : "Toyota already sells a hybrid minivan in Japan and plans to roll out a hybrid version of its Lexus RX 330 SUV, the RX 400h, this year in the United States. Toyota also plans to introduce a hybrid version of its Highlander SUV in the United States next year." The same article also says Ford is to liscence the technology for a hybrid SUV. But they've said that before and bailed. aHoo says, Seems like the time saving of of filling it half as often is worth a lot too, at least for people who feel their time is worth something. How big a gasoline tank does it have? Oh man, I definitely fall into that category. The tank holds 11.9 gallons.
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#8923 - 04-21-04 10:26 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Birdzeye Birdzeye Member Registered: 12-16-01 Posts: 14069	The question that stumped me was #4, what factor would influence me most in buying one of these hybrids. I didn't know whether to choose gas savings or eco-friendly technology. I finally chose gas savings because I think the two go hand in hand. My brother got his Prius about two months ago, after being on a wait list for a few months. I haven't yet heard him comment on it. Before he got it delivered, he said that he had been car shopping and the Prius was not on the top of his list, but was impressed enough with it to put down a deposit for one. I'm thinking of getting a hybrid for my next car.
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#8924 - 04-21-04 11:54 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
zeroflux zeroflux Administrator Registered: 03-11-01 Posts: 6175 Loc: Arlington, Virginia	I was thinking about this topic yesterday, and it occured to me that the boating industry would be an equally good venue for companies to test hybrid gasoline-electric engines. Honda already has a healthy share of the outboard engine market and has a few very small electric models for use on small boats. I think larger and mid-size boats in the 20 ft-50 ft range (especially models with inboard engines) would make an excellent platform to test hybrid gasoline-electric engines since they arguably require less power and provide much more space to work with than vehicles on land. I am somewhat disappointed that alternative propulsion engines and technology is not yet fully commercially available. It seems to me the industry should be much further along than it is.
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#8925 - 04-22-04 09:52 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Zero...why should they tinker with what works..???...they sell the hell out of simple gas of diesel engines..... its all supply and demand....when the market shares drop on big engines...they new ones will hit the market..... its really that simple
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#8926 - 04-22-04 11:57 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
zeroflux zeroflux Administrator Registered: 03-11-01 Posts: 6175 Loc: Arlington, Virginia	"why should they tinker with what works..???" Because it really doesn't work (unless you are referring to the bottom line of petroleum companies). This technology requires less space (therefore preserving vital space in the hull for additional amenities), quieter than diesel, less expensive, more environment friendly (doesn't kill the fishies) and so forth. Sticking to gasoline is "what works" only if you ignore the slow escalation to a world war as a result of securing the flow of oil and the damage done to the environment. It really isn't working. Also, you can't put the horse before the carriage. If the technology is not launched there is no way to evaluate demand... and obviously there is demand, since if you take the case of the Toyota and Honda hybrid's, there are waiting lists for both. I would wager if one or two models of hybrid boats were introduced, the demand would be equally high. I don't see why you seem to fear new competing technology in this area. As you yourself stated, petroleum will never be obsolete as its used to some extent in all products such as plastics, perfumes...etc. I would much prefer that we not squander those limited resources by contributing to even more smog and congestion, but rather use them to ensure an ample supply of raw materials for products we use everyday such as computers...etc.
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#8927 - 04-23-04 12:51 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
aHooGUH aHooGUH Member Registered: 04-10-04 Posts: 1151	The tank holds 11.9 gallons. That gives the Prius about 500 miles (assuming a person doesn't run down to empty) before refilling, a huge jump from the usual 300 miles. How nice it must be to drive by gas stations and look at the prices and lines of cars (time) that are being avoided.
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#8928 - 04-23-04 04:41 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
american woman american woman Moderator Magnifique Registered: 11-10-01 Posts: 4484 Loc: San Diego	Yup! I joke that the higher the gas prices go, the more money I save. Great points, Zero, on "why tinker with what works". Another thing, Caustic, since when do we humans ever really stop tinkering? It's what we do. Think of it. If this were a tinker-free-zone, you never would have gotten your horseless carriage in the first place. If it ain't broke, break it.
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#8929 - 04-25-04 04:29 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Gore1FL Gore1FL Member Registered: 02-22-02 Posts: 28739	Besides, not having plentiful alternatives to the exisitng gas guzzlers makes it less supply demand, and more monopoly. _________________________ The Democratic Party Is The Starship Enterprise
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#8930 - 04-25-04 05:09 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Spodbox Spodbox Member Registered: 08-15-02 Posts: 1429	Oh, there are plenty of alternatives, it's just that stupid image-driven people pay more attention to how a car looks and makes them feel than anything else. After all, SUVs aren't the safest, but they aren't the least safe, either (that would be sport cars). All I care about in a car is how much it costs me to drive it: good gas mileage and reliability. Secondary is cargo space. Everything else is just extras.
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#8931 - 04-26-04 06:40 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Gore1FL Gore1FL Member Registered: 02-22-02 Posts: 28739	Thing is, there should be choices of Hybrid cars that makes them look and feel good. The technology is there, but the choices are not. _________________________ The Democratic Party Is The Starship Enterprise
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#8932 - 04-26-04 11:16 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Spinguru Spinguru Junior Member Registered: 05-24-01 Posts: 148 Loc: Washington, DC	In today's Washington Post: Hybrids Putting More Virginians in the Fast Lane http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41985-2004Apr25.html
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#8933 - 04-30-04 08:32 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	im all for hybrids.....but at this jucture...is just aint good money sence for me.... I have five daughters....and a wife.... ...there aint a crewcabduallyhybrid yet....
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#8934 - 04-30-04 08:49 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	zero...your thot process is good...and your points well said.... however....our world is a market driven world....period... ...everyone is trying to sell their product or philosophy ...by the way....the world economy is oil driven....whether we like it or not.
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#8935 - 05-07-04 03:29 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
american woman american woman Moderator Magnifique Registered: 11-10-01 Posts: 4484 Loc: San Diego	Good news for hybrid-car drivers in CA: Hybrids Move Closer to Using Carpool Lanes
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#8936 - 05-20-04 11:13 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
zeroflux zeroflux Administrator Registered: 03-11-01 Posts: 6175 Loc: Arlington, Virginia	however....our world is a market driven world....period... Looks like the market is speaking very clearly. From today's Washington Post... a trend that is long overdue, IMO. Fuel Sippers Gaining on Heavyweights As Gasoline Prices Continue to Rise, Large Vehicles Lose Favor Ever since gas prices started spiking last month, customers have been flocking to one side of Lustine Toyota/Dodge in Woodbridge and ignoring the other. "The Dodge truck business is way down," General Manager Jim Giddings said, because of what he called "this gas thing." He's on track to sell just 36 Dodge trucks this month, compared with 68 during the same month last year. Toyota sales, on the other hand, are up 38 percent so far in May. One of the big drivers is the Prius, the gas-electric hybrid that has become a phenomenon in the past year. Giddings said he has a waiting list of more than 50 customers. As average gas prices have topped $2 a gallon this month for the first time, cracks are emerging in America's decade-long obsession with bigger and bigger vehicles. Drivers are starting to think about the cost of cruising in two tons of steel, and some are turning to a new crop of innovative -- and more economical -- smaller cars. Sales of truck-based SUVs fell in April, and sales of small cars went up. Automakers rushed to the aid of SUVs, which is where they earn most of their profit, lowering base prices and offering more incentives than on any other type of vehicle. At the same time, they raised prices on small cars. "Gas prices seem to be the most likely reason why. . . . As long as they stay around where they are or higher, there is going to be some shifting of the market," said Jesse Toprak, director of pricing and market analysis for Edmunds.com. That's bad news for domestic automakers, who are "especially vulnerable because they make most of their profits from large SUVs and large trucks, and if demand softens, it's going to hurt their bottom lines for sure," he said. Full Article
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#8937 - 05-21-04 03:46 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
american woman american woman Moderator Magnifique Registered: 11-10-01 Posts: 4484 Loc: San Diego	That's good news, zero. Though I think it's hope against hope that this isn't more than a fad. There's a hip-cool factor that's part of the popularity of the hybrids. Granted, the enviro-friendly thing is part of the cool. It's just that, you know, when I was coming of car-age, nobody but NOBODY would have considered owning a gas-guzzling American-made car with an automatic transmission. Somewhere that morphed into "I have a God-given right to my Humvee, my Mini-Van and my Sports Utility Vehicle." (There's a bad country song in there somewhere.) So it remains to be seen if this will be a fad or an honest-to-God trend towards a preference for fuel-efficiency … and breathing.
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#8938 - 05-21-04 10:05 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
zeroflux zeroflux Administrator Registered: 03-11-01 Posts: 6175 Loc: Arlington, Virginia	According to various dealers I spoke to, Honda has a V6 Hybrid version of the Accord which is due to be launched next year. I also heard Ford is working on a Hybrid version of their pickup trucks. If the Hybrid technology is going to be available for larger engines, then it probably isn't a fad... and consumers will be able to have their cake and eat it too... i.e. fuel efficient SUV's, trucks...etc. We went car shopping last weekend, and according to no less than three salesmen at different dealerships, full electric technology that outperforms gasoline vehicles already exists; but the automotive industry is allegedly being pressured by the oil interests to delay the introduction of full electric vehicles. The conspiracy seems to be widespread on this issue, and I am curious to find out what the actual facts are that lead to the above allegation.
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#8939 - 05-21-04 09:07 PM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	....a tin hat two sizes too small.... build a better mousetrap ...and the world will beat a path to your door.
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#8940 - 05-22-04 02:57 AM Re: Hybrid Vehicles & Energy Conservation
american woman american woman Moderator Magnifique Registered: 11-10-01 Posts: 4484 Loc: San Diego	We went car shopping last weekend, and according to no less than three salesmen at different dealerships, full electric technology that outperforms gasoline vehicles already exists; What about refueling?
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